I really don’t think people appreciate what “real” graphic designers go through in the course of anything we have to produce. People assume that if they just tell us what they want we go into photoshop and make it happen.

Its so much more involved with that and they can’t begin to appreciate how much of our job actually includes research (assuming someone is doing this properly), and how much trial and area goes into developing even one good concept.

Logo designing fees should be based on 2 things: the time spend to design it and more importantly, the creative.

I think creativity should itself be enough to determine the value of a designer. But then again, like you said, clients find things like too simple, not creative enough, too little time as random excuses just so they can pay less. I think you can do a whole post on things clients say to get a quality design cheap. Oh ya, coming from you that will be a good read I bet!

Good job once again! *thumbs up*

Yeah right people dont really realize the amount of hardwork and dedication is there behind any design work. And i think we are here for that only, we should aware people about the real value of particular design.

So glad i found this post. I am a final year graphic design student and i do small jobs here and there in between my studies, but the worst part about them is trying to figure out what to charge.

i am doing my research paper on why designers end up burning out and changing career paths. Maybe this could be another aspect of why we change over , being bullied over what to charge as a creative. Like you said a person still needs to make ends meet. Just a thought… does anyone have any other links or suggestions on routes my research paper could follow up.

I think creativity should itself be enough to determine the value of a designer…….

The more cycles of aimless and arbitrary revision work a designer is forced to do, the more the job should cost.

The apocryphal story that is often related to young artists is about Toulouse-Lautrec. It seems he had a client who wanted a pastel of a favorite horse. Lautrec told him to come back in a few hours.

When the man returned he saw the drawing and was very please. Then Lautrec gave him him the final cost. The client found it an outrageous sum for a few hours work and expressed his displeasure.

Lautrec reportedly said: You are not paying for the few hours it took to draw the horse this well. You are paying for the 20 years of work it took to learn to draw the horse this well.

I have had lookie-loos balk at my prices and tell me, quite literally, that they could buy a framed print at (Wal-Mart, etc) for $20.00. Seriously, I don’t want that person owning my work.

But I am speaking as a fine artist. I went into my profession with a foreknowledge that it’s not exactly high on the list of top earning jobs. Designers have another battle to fight. But I do sympathize.

The ONLY reason why the Graphic Design is so convoluted is due to oversaturation of unqualified “designers” that advertises their services for $50.
Our only chance for survival or growth and recognition of our industry would be is to hold is to have professional designations and/or certificates that is governed by a organized committee (much like a PhD program).

As I understand it, in finance any product that has the capacity to enhance you financially will cost you financially. The more money its going to make you, the more money its going to cost you and the fee correlates to the upside.

Unfortunately outside of the arts and politics, most don’t fully appreciate the value of capable design. To that end the political field pulls in everything advertising has to teach it.

The biggest issue I suspect is that most graphic designers are weak on the business side or simply don’t care for it. Business has a vocabulary and generally understood norms of communication. If anyone needing a graphic designer got a same or similar discussion in the fee negotiation side we wouldn’t be having this discussion. You can go from accountant to account and lawyer to lawyer. They may have different methodologies and strategies they employ, but when it come to the money, the conversations are roughly the same.

Recently I had a client come to me mentioning how they spoke to a web designer who quoted them plus $1500. Despite their exasperation, I didn’t miss a beat and told them that sounded about right for a full custom but basic website. I shared with them that they could bring cost down by going with a template, but made certain that they no longer considered that guy a bandit. If a designer chooses to work below market it’s better to express the price as a current special or let clients know what market truly is. This way every client becomes more educated about the space and will increasingly think with enough phone calls they can dictate the price.

They should get paid a lot especially if they are sleeping with their clients.

I do not know on what criteria should a graphic designer paid.But i know one of my friends is a graphic designer whose work is graphic designe and his salary is good in our city.

Interesting article, I think salary should be dependent on experience and time spent on the project and believe as you say that some designs like Fedex or Nike initially do seem simple but for those companies their logo is a huge part of their advertising and marketing campaigns and has set the brand apart from its competitors.

It all depends on how you sell it! The art of being a great designer isn’t enough, you must know how to get the value of your work from your clients and refuse to the work if it doesn’t work for you, if you keep working according to your client rates, you will get frustrated easily and it affects the quality of your work and the whole game is lost.

There is a great deal of time spent designing a project. Researching competitors and finding images for the project take up a lot of the time. Once the design process begins, often designers will create several different versions of a logo, business card, or flyer for the client to choose from. Never under value yourself. If you have talent you are worth every penny of what you charge. If you find yourself constantly being nickled and dimed maybe you need to change your target market. Never under charge, businesses pay for quality and quality costs. Also ask for a retainer before you begin work and have clients sign a contract, it could a few words on an estimate. If a client isn’t open to paying a down payment on a design they aren’t serious about paying you at all.

As a graphics designer you always feel as if your paid short, but I guess thats life. You feel so good about what you worked so hard to design. Its hard to let go of almost. lol

A lot of people view design work as a non labor intensive means of work thus feeling less inclined to pay for the services. I basically tell my clients if they want cheap to go find some kid out of college. If they want someone to show them how to get results then they should be willing to pay. After all many people I deal with own businesses. It does not take long to make them understand they get what they pay for. If they do not see value in what I have to offer then I really do not want to work with them anyway. The less they value my service the less they value my time. Sure I do jobs where I feel like I should have been paid more but I pick the ones where I get into this situation. I try to make them count toward getting more work in the future.

designing is a bloody job to have but it is very rewarding

I have to edcuate new clients on every job I do and let them know that design is a business not a hobby.
Designers have alot of moeny invested in thier education and equipment, and even if you work out of your house you do have expenses. Clients need to know they are not paying for pretty visuals, they are also paying for your advice, expertise and knowledge.

Interesting read. I’ve had my share of clients who think a quality logo should have beveled edges, incorporate detailed imagery, or explain everything about their company all in a single graphic. Trying to explain the concept of “simple is more effective” when it comes to logo design is one of the toughest things to deal with in my opinion.

look ive been working as a media graphics designer for a long time i have no degree but ive always been a bad artist and my vision was always noticed ….and now as a media graphics designer working based on my experience on art and on the programs used and needed for graphic design i get paid minimum wadge and i work my ass off woring about deadlines and other peoples shit with a stupid paycheck at the end of every two weeks. so yeah we r underpaid BIGTIME

I think there are some good points made here. I would like to point out however that the vast majority of designers do not have the opportunity to work on such prestigious brand names, however talented or skilled, if you consider design to be more of a craft, they may be.

I am an Irish designer working in the field for 14 years now. Arrogance is not a trait I see much value in. I do however consider myself, having had exposure to a large amount of other designers work, to be in the top 25 percentile of designers working in Ireland. After a long struggle with mastering the technicalities of my field and striving to preserve my creativity in the meantime, I have found that my country is not culturally or artistically aware enough to offer the creative opportunity or monetary rewards for skills such as my own. It was only upon moving to Denmark for a couple of years that I found myself receiving a good salary working for a well-known brand in a relatively well-respected position, with no efforts on my part, other than attending the interview, to secure the job.

On reflection after all these years of struggle with stress, deadlines, demanding bosses, comparatively pitiful pay and chronic illness related to all of the latter I have often found myself wishing I had chosen a simpler path, and taken that apprentice offer in a menial job. I love what I do when I feel valued and worthwhile for doing it, but it isn’t often this occurs. Most designers are generally resented by their managers and the marketing type and considered to be a necessary evil in the field of advertising and design, which generally leads to low pay and the constant dream of one day having the business savvy to start ones own business. Business savvy is of course not a very good bedfellow for the mind of a creative graphic designer.

It is heartwarming to see that there are others like me who feel strongly enough to blog about this subject but I’m left yearning to read something about the on-the-ground realities of the literal torture it is to have chosen to pour your soul into something only to be left with the feeling that what you put your very essence into is considered a societal frill at best.

One last point: with regard to the equal attention to all jobs coming a designers way - I only wish to ones day meet a person responsible for paying my wages who is open to an explanation of why I consider all work important, let alone give me the time on the small jobs to do them well.

There do exist those strange and slinking creatures, in the lower floors of this house of cards, who have also given their lives for love.

I really like this post , it gave me a boost that yes we designers are equally hard working as any other guy is , but the problem is the clients think that we are the most inwanted people and can work for any stupid amount they offer us , even if we manage to land a good work they want a unicorn coming out of that work which makes that pay useless as by that time we have done so many rework that the charm of work just vanishes . i wish there could be a way so that no one can exploit us .

Let me tell you, this once was a greatly admired profession, especially before B.C. (Before Computers). Creativity and ideas rendered on paper were a great skill and rewarded with top pay. When I made the transition from traditional to computer aided graphic design back in 1990, it was also very lucrative because the were fewer designers working this way.

About 6-7 years ago, I and my graphic design colleagues started to noticed a change. The influx of many “wanna be” designers who would work for less money and or free began emerging into the field. Thus, clients looking to save money and having lower budgets started to take notice and prices have fallen ever since. You get comments from clients like, “don’t spend too much time on it” or “can you do better on the price, I have more work down the road for you if you do”.

The way designers work is changing also, most times a designer would be given a brief about the project and would come up with ideas to present later to the client. Now, in a lot of cases the client demands to sit or stand behind the designer and art direct changes on screen.

I have been pretty lucky over the years and have been paid well, but this profession is going bad and thankless. What a great ride it has been looking back, but things will never be the same as far as top dollar pay goes and there are many good young talented designers out there who deserve a good wage.

I think a designer should be paid what he/she is worth and their worth should not be determined by someone that doesn’t know what goes into the craft. When someone comes to me and wants me to do some work for them, but cringe and the price I will tell them what it cost me to purchase the software to give them top of the line graphics and I will then begin to explain to them the process of what it will take to achieve the look they want. I will also sometimes open up one of the programs and let the workspace intimidate them. I will also explain the amount of hours that go into creating motion graphics. If that doesn’t get them to see the big picture then I invite them to do it their self. When they realize the money they will lose by having shabby work the usually see just how worth it, it really is. If they still don’t then I don’t need their business. If they are they CEO and they make $100,000 a year and I tell them that is too much how would they feel?

Graphics is a commercial practice that is part of business development and marketing Strategy. Unfortunately as the economy gets tougher the design industry gets more saturated. I have talented, skilled experienced graphic designers coming to me weekly looking to get foot in the door offering to work for free. I have job offers that are wall to wall expecting me to provide 20 years of expertise and current skills into providing design services at rates that would not pay to use electricity for the day or a days phone bill. I am also frequently asked to “help out” or “advise”… To maintain any kind of business I have to throw in alot of extras in order to compete which is not even wrking out sine so many will work for free or since so many will hire a brother in law cuz he’s great at the auld “computers” . Many business’s are copping on fast that we are ten a penny. I think the business has been crumbling particularly the last 4 years. Whatever about the negotiating a fee and contract problem… the actual insult to a human beng to be expected to design a brand identity for free and do a professional webdesign service at an unreasonable low rate is not only unprofessional is plain subhuman… since we have to eat too. Your;s with love, from a crumbling EU state, tired, broke and want to work, will clean toilets for a living.

Learn how how to sell and communicate value in your skills. If someone doesn’t value what you have to bring to the table then simply approach the next the next business owner you can possibly help and if they say no keep refining your approach. Then go back to the ones who said no. Talent alone doesn’t cut it in this world and that goes for any profession. I know many talented designers that never went to school, but produce great work and get the job done. I for one have learned to convert a cheap vista print customer every time. If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to get it! And if you must know I dropped out of college as well and learned to grind the streets and produce results for my clients.

We all need a governemtn regulated union and we all need to police ourselves and make sure nobody is working outside of the union. WE ARE GETTING RIPPED OFFF wholesale.
I don’t know if it’s bc we are dominated by females and art sissys or what — but the problem is real and it’s killing us. WE can’t get a fair wage for a complex job that demans a specific and talented type of individual. We should be earning more than any construction worker or landscaper or other NON-EDUCATED worker - and we don’t even come close in most cases. WHAT the heck is going on - this is a national crisis. The Colleges need to stop pumping folks out like there are jobs that can pay back our loans. This is robbery and nobody is holding them or the employers accountable.

It’s a good idea to hord together any designers you can and create guilds and unions and make sure nobody slips thourgh the craks to undermine your pricing. We need to create virtual monoploies so we can value our work where it should be instead of cutting each others throats on a daily basis. That only helps the cheap business guy that thinks a 2year old can do what you do.

What a brilliant topic.

Recommendation is your best tool. Work to a formular and always include a
Contingency. Always insist on a retainer. never underquote, never ever discount!

If you’re confident and can back this up with skill, the sky is the limit!